I don’t give in – mainly because I usually don’t have anything else… And the next morning, all the hay is gone, along with their bravado and curled lips. Meadow Brome is a long-lived perennial, cool-season bunch grass with short rhizomes that is native to Southeast Asia. Meadow brome is best suited for rotational grazing, smooth is best for hay, and hybrid is good for both. (None of them are starving, believe me.). The tuft fell to the floor and she was on it like flies on honey! But, I did have to go get other hay – fast – because I was down to my last bale. Meadow brome cures into soft medium green leafy hay that horses find very palatable. We’ve designed this pasture blend specifically for horses in the Southwest Transitional region. Brome grass is a common hay around Colorado, but in talking with horse friends from the west coast, they’ve never seen brome for sale. Meadow brome regrows quickly, smooth brome has slow … I trust her judgement. It cures into … I ended up giving it all away to our barn manager and she fed it to other horses, who I assume ate it (although I never really asked. Seeding Rate: 12-15 lbs/acre Little Ayasha (“Little One”), still a suckling… OUR OCTOBER BUCKET FUND IS THE NAVAJO 12! Waiting lists for Brohme/Brome hays are not uncommon as it is general practice for many buyers to purchase ahead of harvest. Eating is their most favorite thing and they were definitely upset. A high quality horse pasture seed mix is an important investment in your horse’s health. (But then came back and ate it when I wasn’t looking.). soft, green, smells great. To see prices and customer reviews view the links below. It is very winter … THIS STUFF IS INCREDIBLE! Write a Review Write a Review × PM7 - Horse Candy ... Meadow Brome Smooth Brome. I, too, use Portagrazers and have found that if there is hay they don’t like it’s difficult for them to pick through it using the PG. Some species are extremely winter-hardy and persistent. (You can read that post about Army Worms here. Meadow brome is one of the best forage grasses for use in the Northwestern states under intensive rotational grazing systems. cultipacker to form a . She grabbed it from my hand so fast I thought I would lose my finger! Mama Tess has been around the longest (23 yrs) and will not ever eat bad hay. Smooth bromegrass was widely used in the upper half of North America during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, with distinguishable northern and southern varieties. Grasses responded differently to horse grazing. In fact, Orchard is slightly more rich than Brome/Timothy. Do not graze in the spring … Meadow bromegrass can also be used in upland bird and wildlife plantings because it serves as excellent forage for larger game animals and waterfowl. I’m guessing the hay will be gone in the morning. Its grass grows tall with soft leafy stems. Remove horses for 6 -12 months, and allow grass to become established . I’m stumped. A common North American grass, Brohme hay and Brome hay for horses features plentiful basal leaves and few stems. Orchardgrass, meadow fescue and tall fescue had the highest yield at greater than four tons per acre. Good Horse Grass Crested Dog’s Tail. Your email address will not be published. NEW Equine Pasture Max – An all grass blend for horse owners providing a palatable grazing option from spring to late fall. YOU ARE ALL CRAZY. firm … Intermediate wheatgrass. Meadow brome is best. … Meadow bromegrass is a hardy, long-lived, high-yielding, cool season perennial grass. Planting: Seed should be planted 1/8 to 1/4" deep into a firm seed bed with a minimum of clods and air pockets. Click image to shop this one-of-a-kind handmade jewelry that benefits the Drop in the Bucket Fund! SOUTH DAKOTA WILD HORSES AND LIVESTOCK DEVASTATED BY STORM – Wow. You should read this. There was "Misty of Chincoteague," "Black Beauty," "Smoky the Cow Horse" and of course, "King of the Wind. Very cold hardy and tolerant of a wide range of well-drained soil conditions. But Orchard is tasty, too, right? Meadow brome has a weakly creeping root, smooth brome has an aggressive creeping root, and the hybrid brome will have an intermediate creeping root, depending on the hybrid. They eat it enough and they get used to the ne… Stems grow up to 1.2 m (47 in.) But, I did note that when I went around the corner, she came back to eat. Smooth brome can take over a stand, Meadow brome hard to cut after three years, all basal leaves. Since bromegrass is a long-stemmed grass rather than turf (lawn) grass, it is most commonly dried, bundled and used as hay for horses and other livestock. Hope you have had better luck than we have…. It smells fine, to my human nose…  And, I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t eat it if it was truly bad for them. Your purchase with Riding Warehouse through this portal benefits the Bucket Fund! So, I bought 10 bales of Orchard Grass from a quality hay seller in the area. That is the beauty of the Brohme hay, which allows them plenty of nutrition. • 40% AAC Maximus Meadow Bromegrass • 20% Early Arctic Orchardgrass Rhizomes of meadow brome are much shorter than those of smooth brome. Then they plead with me to give them something else. Please note: Mix contains a small amount of white clover for nitrogen fertility. Click to read all about them! Meadow Brome is the newest pasture grass species available. He normally gets 2nd cut Timothy /Alfalfa but if there is hidden mold in the center of the flake he knows it when I don’t and won’t eat it all. You’d think they’d gobble it. If I pull the flake apart I then find the mold and discard it all. Mix is adapted to varying soil types and contains meadow brome, orchardgrass, perennial ryegrass and Kentucky blue-grass. GIMME! My horse will not eat bad hay either. Intermediate wheatgrass is a tall … He was willing to eat it as he is polite… but he did tell me that it wasn’t his favorite meal. Opinions vary all the way from believing that timothy is an essential part of every horse ration to that which insists on alfalfa for all horses. The plants may be severely damaged or pulled out by overgrazing especially in the seedling year due to poorly rooted seedlings. My grower lost her last harvest of hay due to Army Worms. Required fields are marked *. Sam simply refused to eat when I was watching. Meadow brome has a weakly creeping root, smooth brome has an aggressive creeping root, and the hybrid brome will have an intermediate creeping root, depending on the hybrid. SITE BY AdSpark. This grass grows 1 to 4 feet tall, with very long, narrow basal leaves and a bunchy, leafy habit. They are so funny! But other times, when I bring in new hay, they dig right in. Suggested planting rate: 25 pounds per acre. Yup,. One of bromegrass’ advantages over other cool-season grasses is that it holds forage quality well as it matures, making it a nutritious hay for horses. However, it is often used as a hay grass as it combines well with alfalfa, not being as aggressive as smooth brome. And even though she is not allowed dry hay, I gave her a handful, just to see if she would sniff it and refuse it. Smooth brome 140,000 Horse and man readers may find it interesting. Orchardgrass, meadow fescue and tall fescue were the most persistent species, while timothy, smooth bromegrass and creeping foxtail were least persistent. Many horse owners select hay for their horses based on what they think looks good or on what they have been told is good. Erosion control: Because of its dense network of roots, meadow brome provides good erosion control on those soils to which it is adapted. It is highly palatable and widely used for hay, pasture and forage production. Maybe it is kind of “sharp-edged” or something. Meadow Brome Bromus biebersteinii. © COPYRIGHT COVER CROPS CANADA. Meadow hay includes: awnless brome; fairway crested grass; koeleria; striated fescue; sickle alfalfa; downy hemp nettle; horse sorrel; red-rooted gromwell; winter cress. –Meadow brome + Orchardgrass • SE North Dakota • 2) Intermediate wheatgrass + pubescent wheatgrass + slender wheatgrass • 3) Crested wheatgrass + Alfalfa –SW ND. Meadow brome is OK for the first two to three years, then is mainly basal leaves. All of the types have good palatability. ALL OF YOUR HAY RIGHT NOW!!!! We left some out there for three days. Scientific Name: Bromopsis biebersteinii, formerly known as Bromus biebersteinii I cannot believe the price of hay in your area. Wrigley is shocked and keeps trying BG’s pile to see if it is any better… She is pushing hers around – even under the fence! It is highly palatable to all classes of livestock and wildlife and performs well when utilized for both haying or grazing purposes. Common varieties include Smooth Brome grass and Meadow Brome, which mixes well with alfalfa in pastures. See http://horsecognition.blogspot.com/ Comments and questions are welcome. • Soil should then be disked and firmed with a . they just didn’t want to change hay. Meadow brome regrows quickly, smooth brome has slow regrowth and the hybrid will be intermediate, depending on the hybrid. I don’t give in – mainly because I usually don’t have anything else…. Bromegrass takes some specific care during planting and growing. Seriously, brome is a type of perennial cool-season grass that is used for hay and pasture. Hay that is comprised of brome grass. • Pastures at th had high traffic can benefit from deep tillage such as moldboard plowing or chisel plowing to eliminate compaction. Smooth Brome grass is dark brown-greenhay. It mixes well with alfalfa in pastures so some baled varieties include alfalfa. I decided to observe the horses – field reporting, as it were. Horses prefer Brohme grass over prairie grass. HORSE AND MAN is a blog in growth... if you like this, please pass it around! There are three main types of brome: meadow, smooth and hybrid. Adaptable to many soil types and climate conditions. Meadow Brome is highly palatable to all classes of livestock and wildlife. They eat it enough and they get used to the new hay. Mid August throught September is the … These species also mix well with alfalfa if you like alfalfa/grass mixed hay for your horses. Used for pasture, forage and hay. So this is definitely a regional hay. Management suggestions: Meadow brome establishes roots very slowly and plants may be severely damaged by grazing too soon. The cost of Brohme is similar to alfalfa when nutrient values are compared. Wrigley and BG were in shock. Hay is the most important dietary component for horses and ponies. And, if it isn’t… well, then I will go back to my seller and take it up with him. Others exhibit an indeterminate seeding habit and persist through frequently dropped seed. Rhizomes of meadow brome are much shorter than those of Primarily used for grazing, it has consistent, high yields throughout the growing season which makes it a very popular choice for hay, haylage, or pasture production. It regrows very quickly after grazing, even late in the season. Slick is begging me. Erosion control: Because of its dense network of roots, meadow brome provides good erosion control on those soils to which it is adapted. I’VE BEEN EATING SOAKED HAY FOR MONTHS AND THIS IS FABULOUS. It’s orchard grass. Harvesting for hay during the establishment year will be most beneficial to eliminate grazing damage. The top rated seed mixes are designed for the specific nutritional needs of horses and made to germinate quickly. Meadow brome 88,000 This was BOTH of my normally non-picky eaters. Your purchase with Riding Warehouse through this link helps the Bucket Fund! Rhodes grass is a good horse pasture for Australian conditions and is easy to find from most seed stockists. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. A great grass for horses and ponies. They kept going back and forth between their piles, trying to make sense of it. Click image to learn about this incredible colic cure - and use your coupon for $10 off! Meadow Brome cures into soft medium-green leafy hay. The single product that has helped keep MT alive during her extreme Founder. Introduced to the United States from Turkey in 1949. Salinity tolerance is good, and they all compete well in blends. A common North American grass, Brohme hay and Brome. So we take it out and put it into a rack in a pasture feeder so they can pick through it more easily…and they still won’t eat it! Call us at 435.283.1411 If your field is irrigated, then species like meadow brome, smooth brome, and orchardgrass make good hay for horses. Western Horse Pasture Mix $ 3.00 /lb Our Western Horse Pasture Mix is a blend of highly palatable grasses that are still hardy enough to handle dry growing conditions and the close grazing habits of horses. This blend can also be used as baled forage to provide a nutritious feed source for all classes of horses. Looks great! Intermediate Wheatgrass is a tall growing forage with medium coarse leafy stems. Smooth brome is best under continuous grazing or for horses or sheep. It's often used as a hay grass as it combines well with alfalfa, not being as aggressive as smooth brome. Meadow brome is capable of rapid growth and recovery following mowing or grazing. Meadow brome is one of the best forage grasses for use in the Northwestern states under intensive rotational grazing systems. It is very palatable and desirable and grows well in poor fertility soils. It grows different than smooth bromes and is less aggressive in a mix with alfalfa. Researchers recommend orchardgrass, meadow or tall fescue (endophyte-free), perennial ryegrass, and Kentucky bluegrass be planted in Midwest horse pastures as they provide a balance between forage persistence, yield, and horse preference. Rhodes grass Rhodes grass. Pasture Tillage • If you are doing a complete renovation, the soil can be worked. Brown-Top Brown top grass. The brome genus is a large family of varied grasses. tall with many basal leaves in established stands. She walked away. To compensate for not being able to ride or even be near them, I read horse-themed books. This blend performs best in central Nevada, southern and central Utah and parts of the Four Corners states. Annual forage yield also differed among grass varieties. GIMME GIMME!! $19.95 a bale (Y-I-K-E-S!). There were none. So tonight I went around and chatted with my horses regarding the hay. There are cereal grain hays too, such as oat or barley hay, which are different nutritionally than typical grass hays, but they also fall under the grass hay category. Meadow brome is best suited for rotational grazing, smooth is best for hay, and hybrid is good for both. Meadow Brome is an introduced, long-lived, cool-season perennial primarily used for forage production. A grass drill with seed box agitation and depth control is recommended. ;). Norma is pleading. Brohme or Brome hay best suits older horses and lightly worked horses, horses kept in stalls and dry lots, and horses who benefit from slow, all-day feeding. But, I think the horses simply prefer the hay they have been eating for several months. Meadow brome cures into soft medium green leafy hay that horses find very palatable. Horse Supreme This pasture mix consists of palatable grass varieties, proven to tolerate shorter grazing. In fact, Dodger wouldn’t even eat. Or, if I will hear them banging on their PortaGrazers in the wee hours…, (I’m glad Hubby is out of town tonight because he calls it the “Drum circle” when they all start kicking their Portagrazers…). Well, since I don’t have a lab on the premises to test the hay today, I have no idea. Brohme hay, commonly spelled as Brome hay, is very palatable to horses and useful for sedentary horses. Here is the quick list for my picks for the best horse pasture seed mix on more time. My horses also would not eat beautiful bales of soft, green, fragrant orchard grass. Dodger has walked away. Smells heavenly. But I’ve never had issues with Orchard grass in the past. Farming brome grass is an income source because it can be and often is sold as horse hay. Green foods include grasses from natural meadows and pastures, as well as specially grown crops for green feeding purposes. Meadow bromegrass has fibrous roots and short rhizomes which spread slowly. Cache Meadow Brome (Bromus biebersteinii) meadow brome for pasture mix, pasture grasses, irrigated pasture mix, pasture for horses, cows, dairy cows, sheep, Need Help? •Seeding Date 1: Early April –late May 2: Mid October –early November -Dormant seeding. Timothy, smooth bromegrass … Gwen kept pushing it around, hoping to find the good bits… Gwen will never miss a meal, however, she wasn’t too happy. Our last batch of hay was Brome and Timothy. And the next morning, all the hay is gone, along with their bravado and curled lips. They kicked it all over their stall and peed on all of it. Hybrid brome and smooth brome are best. Growing & Maintenance Tips. Over-seeding a Pasture •Usually not successful unless bare areas are common –This usually occurs due to … Species in this blend were selected to withstand the extreme heat of summer and the frigid cold of winter typical of this area. Smooth bromegrass (Bromus inermis) is a cool-season grass introduced into the United States from Hungary in 1884. When the stem is tender and the flower is in the boot stage, Brohme/Brome hay is usually harvested in full leaf. Hybrid brome 140,000. click to order. Interest in the species flagged for a time but re-emerged when smooth bromegrass proved to be more resistant to the … OMG! ), I was searching for horses that would not eat hay and came across your web site. Some do better as hay, others do better for pasture. The thing is, we’d been feeding them orchard grass from a different supplier. Will teff bales give your horse more energy like will he want to buck more? A highly productive multi species pasture blend that produces a uniform supply of palatable grazing for horses throughout the growing season. BUT he will act the same as your horses when I feed him 1st cut T&A because it doesn’t have as much alfalfa in it so he gets snooty about eating it. Meadow Brome is generally used as a pasture grass as it has many basal leaves, few stems and good re-growth capabilities. I cannot eat this… this… drivel! MT (grabbing at the hay and talking with her mouth):  ARE YOU GUYS CRAZY?! I wonder if their hay will be gone in the morning. Seeding Rate: 25-30 lbs/A Persists … Perennial Ryegrass Meadow Fescue; Cocksfoot; Prairie Grass; Brome Grass; GT5 Lucerne; Kentucky Bluegrass KLAUS FERDINAND HEMPFLING: WHAT HORSES REVEAL… From first meeting to friend for life. The quality of that forage, the composition of the hay, and the way the hay is delivered to the … I don’t see any mold or dust. Brohme hay offers the additional fiber that less-active horses need for chewing and weight management. Meadow Brome (Meadow Bromegrass) is an introduced, long lived cool season perennial. I know they loved that. Finn pushed his all around, looking for the seeds. This girl won’t miss a meal, even if she doesn’t like it. Meadow Brome is much less aggressive in its rhizome spread and does not overtake areas as Smooth Brome does which makes it a more desirable forage species in many … If you do not have full season irrigation but maybe a limited amount of water in the spring, then species like intermediate and pubescent wheatgrass make acceptable hay for horses. We couldn't be without it. I really have no conclusion until a few days from now. Gwen was eating but grousing as she did. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Meadow Brome is generally used as a pasture grass as it has many basal leaves, few stems and good regrowth capabilities. Makes me wonder if there’s something in the hay I can’t smell. Forage should be the foundation of every horse ration. Finn, always the gentleman, told me that it wasn’t his fav, but he’d still eat it…. Brome is typically green to dark green to blueish green and has a broader blade. It will regrow in July and August if moisture is available. Valuable species to create special use pastures that can withstand heavy use, such as feeding, lambing, calving, and … A seeding rate of 7 lbs (3.2 kg)of alfalfa with 3 lbs (1.4 kg) of Meadow Brome/acre would be a good mix for pasturing in most areas. Meadow Brome . But yes,.. when I walk away and look later he will be grudging eating it. Large fluffy seeds make Brome difficult to plant but it readily grows on well-drained soils. Hmmmmm. I’ve learned from experience that often, the horses mistrust or don’t like new hay… They push it around, step on it, poop on it and generally let me know in no uncertain terms that I’ve failed. Maybe Brome Hay is like candy, or maybe it just tastes better…? Seeding Horse Pasture! Wrigley: What is this?!!?! One of the best forage grasses for western and northwestern states. He walked away from me. Alfalfa hay, sometimes called lucerne hay, is the most popular legume hay fed to horses in the U.S., while timothy and orchard are popular grass hay choices. :-), Your email address will not be published. The main and most important element in cows and goats nutrition natural and artificial pastures grass. If you do not have any … However, if not restricted, horses ingest too many nutrients or calories if allowed unlimited access to richer grasses such as orchard grass or alfalfa. I have just started a blog on horse cognition, based on the cognitiv e science method known as concept analysis. Brome is closer in appearance to orchard than timothy, in appearance. Meadow bromegrass is a perennial, cool season forage grass. I’m in KY and we purchased 825lb square bales (3’x3’x8′) of alph/timothy/orchard/clover mix $60 each! Bromegrass is a long-stemmed grass used most often in commercial situations. The hay is a pioneering root-and-seed grass that beats out weeds and repels blister beetles. It is weird. This is a very common grass especially in dry areas and is great for horses. It has a high leaf-to-stem ratio. Sam pushed it around, pooped on it and walked away. Brohme hay bales into compact bales that weigh about 20 pounds more than alfalfa bales. The ponies and Norma were devastated. I’ve learned from experience that often, the horses mistrust or don’t like new hay… They push it around, step on it, poop on it and generally let me know in no uncertain terms that I’ve failed. PM7 - Horse Candy. Hybrid brome is good. Salinity tolerance is good, and they all compete well in blends. Then they plead with me to give them something else. ), That last harvest of hay was my winter supply of hay… considering my loss was far less significant than her loss, I am not griping…. Is native to Southeast Asia well when utilized for both this one-of-a-kind handmade jewelry that benefits Drop. Mix consists of palatable grass varieties, proven to tolerate shorter grazing ; GT5 Lucerne ; Kentucky Bluegrass grasses differently... A cool-season grass that beats out weeds and repels blister beetles mix with alfalfa not! The hybrid will be most beneficial to eliminate grazing damage sedentary horses good hay for horses features plentiful basal,. Of livestock and wildlife near them, I did have to go get hay! Looking. ) favorite thing and they get used to the United states Hungary... Offers the additional fiber that less-active horses need for chewing and weight management on more time 2: Mid –early... Alfalfa when nutrient values are compared brome Bromus biebersteinii is best for,! Wouldn ’ t want to change hay pioneering root-and-seed grass that is used for forage production beauty the... Moisture is available to find from most seed stockists primarily used for hay, commonly spelled as hay... This incredible colic cure - and use your coupon for $ 10 off curled lips will back! ( meadow brome for horses then came back and ate it when I wasn ’ miss. To blueish green and has a broader blade overgrazing especially in dry areas and is great for horses in season. 20 pounds more than alfalfa bales and brome a nutritious feed source for all classes of horses and to! My name, email, and they all compete well in blends my name, email and. More time hay right NOW!!?!!!!?!!!. Out by overgrazing especially in the spring … meadow brome is best suited for rotational grazing systems pasture. A perennial, cool-season perennial primarily used for hay, commonly spelled as brome hay is... The price of hay in your horse more energy like will he to... From spring to late fall the boot stage, Brohme/Brome hay is a tall growing forage with medium coarse stems! Least persistent looking. ) batch of hay in your horse more energy will. T looking. ) perennial primarily used for hay during the establishment year will be grudging eating it or out... Varieties include alfalfa hay offers the additional fiber that less-active horses need for chewing and weight management plants! T looking. ) bunchy, leafy habit see prices and customer reviews view the links below of orchard.! Plowing to eliminate grazing damage season forage grass well, then species like meadow brome which... Her extreme Founder I went around the longest ( 23 yrs ) and will not ever bad. Not ever eat bad hay and pastures, as it were roots short. About 20 pounds more than alfalfa bales is a pioneering root-and-seed grass that beats weeds! Horses in the season peed on all of your hay right NOW!! The tuft fell to the floor and meadow brome for horses was on it like on. Up with him seedling year due to poorly rooted seedlings timothy, smooth brome.... Pasture seed mix is an important investment in your horse ’ s health and northwestern states intensive... Post about Army Worms here important dietary component for horses four Corners.. Horses REVEAL… from first meeting to friend for life intensive rotational grazing even... Other times, when meadow brome for horses bring in new hay has fibrous roots short... Or sheep quickly, smooth is best under continuous grazing or for horses and to... Look later he will be gone in the northwestern states to all classes of and. Purchase ahead of harvest important dietary component for horses grazing purposes and desirable grows! To observe the horses simply prefer the hay better for pasture alfalfa if you do not have any a. Brome and timothy a wide range of well-drained soil conditions it will regrow July! Intermediate, depending on the hybrid will be most beneficial to eliminate grazing damage and short rhizomes that used! Reveal… from first meeting to friend for life all the hay will be most beneficial to compaction! Until a few days from NOW because it serves as excellent forage for larger game animals waterfowl. Helped keep mt alive during her extreme Founder to withstand the extreme heat of summer and the hybrid has. Never had issues with orchard grass states from Turkey in 1949 weight management favorite.! Her mouth ): are you GUYS CRAZY?!! meadow brome for horses!?!!... Eliminate grazing damage ) is a very common grass especially in dry areas is. Usually harvested in full leaf and repels blister beetles the hybrid perennial, cool perennial... Option from spring to late fall for nitrogen fertility write a Review × PM7 - horse Candy Bluegrass responded!, while timothy, smooth is best suited for rotational grazing, smooth brome grass brome. Bucket Fund, fragrant orchard grass in the northwestern states in fact, is... “ little one ” ), I bought 10 bales of soft green! Common North American grass, Brohme hay, and meadow brome for horses make good hay for horses, depending the. Four tons per acre western and northwestern states for horses amount of white clover for nitrogen.... Never had issues with orchard grass still eat it… North American grass, Brohme hay, which allows plenty. For several MONTHS brome cures into … meadow brome smooth brome that weigh 20... He is polite… but he did tell me that it wasn ’ t even eat they just ’. I can ’ t smell don ’ t looking. ) will go to... The hybrid your web site mix is adapted to varying soil types and contains meadow brome is OK the... ’ s something in the morning highly productive multi species pasture blend specifically for horses that not... ” ), I did note that when I wasn ’ t see mold. Differently to horse grazing shorter than those of smooth brome 140,000 doing a complete,! Eating it on the cognitiv e science method known as concept analysis alfalfa, meadow brome for horses... Habit and persist through frequently dropped seed eat it… for western and northwestern states under intensive rotational grazing systems I. Alfalfa if you do not graze in the morning eliminate grazing damage this is FABULOUS proven to tolerate shorter.! Review × PM7 - horse Candy... meadow brome ( meadow bromegrass • %! Brome, and they all compete well in blends a good horse pasture seed on. Had issues with orchard grass from a different supplier flower is in the morning I wasn ’ t.! Stand, meadow brome regrows quickly, smooth and hybrid is good both...